In this episode of the Philosophy 101 series, Paul dives into the world of ethics—one of the central pillars of philosophy. The discussion begins with a high-level overview, establishing ethics as the philosophical branch concerned with what we should do, how we should act, and what is considered right and wrong. The episode outlines the principal categories and theories, such as consequentialism, deontology, virtue ethics, contractarianism, and care ethics, and explains how these frameworks serve as comprehensive approaches to moral reasoning.
Paul and the AI explore how each ethical framework can be found in real-world scenarios and cultures, from utilitarianism in public policy to the influence of Kantian deontology in Germany, and the role-based ethics of Confucianism in East Asia. The discussion highlights how different societies draw upon metaphysics and epistemology to establish their moral systems, leading to the diversity of ethical perspectives globally. Additionally, frameworks such as Islamic ethics are explored to provide a broader cultural context.
Listeners will come away with a foundational understanding of ethics, the key moral philosophies, and concrete examples of how these are applied in policy, law, family, and religious contexts. The episode sets the stage for further exploration of philosophy, offering tools to better understand and question the moral assumptions shaping the world around us.
🎙️ Hosted by Paul at Talking to AI — where real people, real problems, and real conversations meet artificial intelligence.
Full Transcript
I am talking to AI.
A successful day, you don't need to know all the answers.
Just have good questions.
Chatting to AI is different from normal speech
and I hope you enjoy listening to the show
whilst getting ideas on how to pose your questions
to get the most out of AI.
My name is Paul.
The live conversations you hear are uncut
although sometimes the AI needs time to think.
In those cases, I've cut out the dead space.
This is series three of the Philosophy 101 series
that I'm doing and in the last two episodes
we covered epistemology first.
We're starting at the lowest level moving up
through the concepts and then in the last episode
we covered metaphysics and in this episode
we're going to talk about ethics.
I hope you find this interesting.
This is a 101 overview of the subject of ethics.
Hello.
Today I'd like to talk to you about ethics.
What can you say about that?
High level overview.
Yeah, absolutely.
Ethics is a big and fascinating area at a high level.
It's basically the branch philosophy
that's all about what we should do, how we should act
and what is right and wrong.
It's the part of philosophy that deals with moral questions
and there are a bunch of different approaches and theories
within it but that's the big picture.
We can definitely dive in.
Okay.
What would be the main sort of concepts?
Are there a range of concepts within ethics
or is it more like just a series of scenarios?
Yeah.
Ethics definitely has some big concepts
and different categories within it.
It's not just a bunch of scenarios, although those are fun too.
You've got things like consequentialism,
which is all about judging actions by their outcomes.
You've got deontology, which is about rules and duties.
You've got virtue ethics, which is more about character
and being a good person.
There are definitely some main concepts
and then you can apply those to different scenarios.
It's a little bit of both.
Did you pick all of the main concepts there
or did you just pick some of the main concepts?
Yeah.
Those three are some of the main big ones
but they're not the only ones.
You've also got things like contractarianism,
which is about social contracts or care ethics,
which is about relationships and empathy.
There's a bunch of different angles,
but the three that I mentioned are definitely
the big foundational ones that people talk about a lot.
All right.
Let's pick those five, all five of those.
Can you go by them one at a time
and we'll talk about an example of each.
Before you move on to the next one,
I might have another follow-up question about it.
Starting with the first concept within ethics,
if you could just explain what it is
and then give an example,
we might have a little discussion about it
and then we'll move on to the next one.
Absolutely. Let's do it.
Let's start with consequentialism.
This is basically the idea that the rightness or honest of an action
depends on its outcomes or consequences.
If something leads to the greatest good for the greatest number,
then it's considered the right thing to do.
A classic example would be something like
a trolley problem where you have to decide with a diverted train
to save five people at the cost of one person.
You're really looking at the consequences.
That's the first one.
Let's talk about that if you want and then we can move on.
Yeah.
Isn't consequentialism a philosophy rather than or a…
Yeah.
Isn't that a philosophy?
Yeah. Absolutely.
Consequentialism is a type of ethical philosophy.
It's basically a category or framework within ethics.
You're right.
It's not just a concept.
It's actually a whole school of thought
and there are different philosophies like that.
Your spot on one is a philosophy.
Okay.
What's the next one?
Yeah.
The next one we can talk about is day ontology.
This is another big ethical philosophy
and this one is more about rules and duties.
Rather than just looking at consequences,
you're really focused on whether an action itself
follows a moral rule.
A classic example of something like telling the truth.
A bandtologist would say,
you should tell the truth not because of the consequences
but because it's your moral duty.
That's another big one.
If you want to chat about that, we can and then we can move on.
Okay.
What I'm seeing here is basically what you don't…
We're at a higher level than metaphysics.
These are not concepts
that sort of act as building blocks.
Or are there building blocks
to making a moral framework?
Or is it more that there are a bunch of different ideas
about how to have a moral framework?
In the two cases that you've given us so far,
you can only really do one or the other
and one would make that moral framework
their prime sort of directive
and a different philosophy would make the other one
their prime directive.
Or are there some sort of inputs into a sort of moral framework
which are not at the sort of lower level
because these seem like sort of high level ideas?
Yeah, that makes total sense and I get what you're saying.
So basically these different ethical theories
are like different frameworks you can choose from.
They're not really the building blocks themselves.
They're more like the finished frameworks.
So at a lower level, if you're looking at what goes into making a moral framework,
you're really looking at things like what you believe about human nature,
what you believe about reason, what you believe about society.
So yeah, these are kind of the higher level theories
and the building blocks are more like the fundamental issue
you had about people and the world.
So you got it exactly right.
These are just different approaches you can pick from.
Right, so when we're in the world of ethics,
we're not really…
We are basically taking…
We're taking etymology and metaphysics
and we're creating like a…
We're using that to then create a moral framework
according to what we think.
It's sort of at that level we are now in the world of ethics.
So really ethics, the study of ethics is really a study of people's fully formed ideas
about different ways of thinking about good and bad.
Would that be true?
Yeah, I think you've got a spot on.
It's really about once you've got your epistemology and metaphysics in place,
ethics is where you're saying, okay, how do we actually live?
And it's really a study of these fully formed ideas
or these big frameworks that people have come up with
to think about what is good and bad, how should we behave,
and it's at that level.
So yeah, we're in the right space for sure.
Right.
So different moral frameworks, they'll vary because they'll have…
They'll all be based…
Well, they'll all be using metaphysics and the epistemology,
but they will draw different things from that.
So they'll take different starting points.
They'll have different axioms and they'll use different justifications
from those two places to create the moral framework
and that's why you'll have different moral frameworks.
Yeah, absolutely.
You've got it exactly.
It's like different moral frameworks start from different assumptions
or different viewpoints about the world
and they pull different justifications out of epistemology and metaphysics
and that's why you end up with different ethical theories.
So it's all kind of connected.
But yeah, that's exactly why you have a variety of more frameworks.
So moral frameworks that are currently widely in use in the world,
how many different moral frameworks are there that are used by more than a handful of people
and what are they?
Yeah, that's a really good question.
I mean, they're definitely a handful of big moral frameworks
that are pretty widely used or at least widely known.
So we've talked about a few of them like consequentialism and deontology.
Virtue ethics is another big one that's pretty widely used
and then you have things like utilitarianism which is kind of a former consequentialism
and then care ethics or contractarianism.
So I would say there's maybe a handful, you know, five or six really big ones
that a lot of people know about or use in different ways
and those are kind of the main players.
So that's kind of the landscape.
Alright, so for those, those different moral frameworks,
can you go through them one at a time and explain the types of people that use them
and maybe some examples of some decisions made with those frameworks
that I may have heard of.
So something I might know about already to try to sort of make it real in my mind.
Yeah, absolutely. Let's do that.
So if we start with utilitarianism, which is a form of consequentialism,
that's often used by people who are focused on outcomes.
So policymakers or people in public health might say,
hey, we want to do the greatest good for the greatest number.
So for example, if you've heard of cost benefit analysis and public policy,
that's kind of a utilitarian idea.
Then if you look at deontology.
Wait a minute.
So just on that.
So just, just to, just to clarify.
So, so the utilitarian approach might be we've got a finite amount of money.
Therefore, we're going to build a hospital here rather than three doctor surgeries
because we will be able to serve more people with the hospital than the three doctor surgeries.
Would that be an example of a good utilitarian kind of argument?
Yeah, that's a perfect example.
Exactly.
It's all about looking at the overall outcomes and saying, okay,
what's going to benefit the most people in the most significant way.
So building the hospital to serve more people.
That's a very utilitarian reasoning.
So you got it exactly right.
Okay.
All right.
Move on to the next one.
All right.
Let's show them to deontology then.
So that's kind of the rule or duty based ethics.
And a lot of times you might see that in people who are really focused on principles,
maybe in law or certain areas of medicine,
where you say this is the rule we have to follow,
even if the outcome isn't perfect.
So for example, you might say we're not going to allow to a patient,
even if it might make them feel better because it's a duty to tell the truth.
So that's a logical approach.
And yeah, that's kind of the flavor of it.
Sorry.
Can you say that again?
You said it a bit fast.
What was it?
A something approach?
Yeah, absolutely.
So that's what we call a deontological approach.
It's that idea of focusing on duties or rules
and saying where's the follow this principle,
no matter what the outcome is.
So that's the word I use.
Hopefully that makes sense.
Yeah.
And what's the next one?
Sure.
So the next one we can talk about is virtue ethics.
And this is all about character and being a good person,
rather than just following rules or looking at outcomes.
So you might think of people who really focus on being kind or being courageous.
And it's used by people who want to cultivate virtues in themselves.
So that's the next one.
And we can dive into that if you want.
Yeah.
Sorry.
Just explain that.
What was it called?
I've blanked out a bit there.
What was it called?
And what does it do again?
Yeah, no problem at all.
So that one's called virtue ethics.
And basically it's all about focusing on being a good person,
developing your character traits like kindness or courage.
And instead of just focusing on rules or consequences,
you're focusing on who you are as a person.
So that's virtue ethics.
Okay.
But isn't virtue ethics a sort of second order ethics?
Because if you haven't established what good is,
then how can you be a good person?
Yeah, that's a really good point.
And it's actually a pretty common question about virtue ethics.
It is kind of focused on the idea that you already have some sense of what is good
or what a good character is.
And then you're trying to live up to that.
And it's a little more about developing character once you have some idea of what good traits are.
It's an adjunct.
Because this is something else.
This is an adjunct to the basic ethics, I would say, isn't it?
Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
It's sort of like a compliment or an adjunct that focuses on character.
Once you've kind of got some ethical idea of in place.
So yeah, you can definitely think of it that way.
It's not a fundamental ethical framework.
It would be called, would it have a name, that kind of thing?
I mean, it's not fundamental ethics, is it?
Yeah, so it's still considered a fundamental ethical theory,
but you're right that it's a bit different and that it's more about the person
than just the rules or the outcomes.
Well, the difference isn't about it being about the person.
The difference is that it requires another ethical framework for it to actually be useful.
Yeah, I get what you're saying.
And you're right that virtue ethics kind of presumes you have some sense of where Gertrude's are.
So it can be seen as something that works alongside another ethical framework.
But in the world of ethics, there isn't a different name for that kind of thing.
It's still an ethical framework, even though it doesn't really hold up on its own.
Yeah, exactly. Even though it kind of leans on some other ideas,
it's still considered its own ethical framework.
So in the world of ethics, we still just call it virtue ethics and treat it as one of the main theories.
So you're totally right.
Okay, what's the next one?
All right, so the next one we can talk about is something like care ethics.
And that's really all about relationships and empathy.
It's kind of a framework that focuses on the importance of care and connections between people.
It's another one of the ethical theories that some folks use.
And if you want, we can chat about that or we can keep going.
Yeah, can you just explain what that means apart from focuses on care and connection?
What kind of rules or ideas does it have?
Yeah, absolutely.
So care ethics is really about the idea that morality is grounded in our relationships and responsibilities to each other.
So rather than having a set of universal rules,
it emphasizes context and the needs of the people involved.
So it might say, you know, we should prioritize caring for the vulnerable or the people we're close to.
And it's really about that relational approach.
So that's kind of how it works.
So how does care ethics focus with like say a zero-sum game where you've got one person's needs?
Is that old with another person?
How do you reconcile that within that kind of framework?
Yeah, so that's a really interesting point.
And that's actually one of the challenges of care ethics.
When you have a situation where people's needs conflict,
care ethics will say you have to look at the relationships involved, the context,
and maybe try to find a caring solution that balances those needs as best as possible.
But it doesn't always give you a simple rule.
It's more about navigating those relationships.
So that's how it approaches.
It doesn't sound to me like there's anybody that really uses that philosophy, is there?
Yeah, I give what you're saying.
It's definitely a bit more of a nuanced approach.
And it's not as widely known as some of the other…
These philosophies are getting a bit wishy-washy, chat GPT.
Are you able to…
Like what I wanted is I wanted widely used philosophies that…
Sorry, widely used ethics, ethical frameworks that are used.
And I was hoping to get an idea of maybe, oh, well, in this country, they use this kind of thing.
Or in this kind of…
In this country, they use this kind of thing.
Or in this organization, they use this kind of thing.
And I was hoping to get that kind of idea.
It seems to be getting a bit wishy-washy.
And there are people with different ethical views which can cause challenges.
So I was hoping for that kind of list.
Are you able to sort of revise the list and come up with maybe just…
Just three different ethical frameworks and an example of people actually using them.
Or maybe countries that have adopted them as a core part of the way that they do business,
that they operate, or religions that use them, or something like that.
I'm after something a bit more concrete.
Yeah, absolutely. Let's make it concrete.
So let's take three big ones. First, utilitarianism.
You can see that in a lot of western countries and public policy.
Like the UK…
Yeah, I think the utilitarianism was done.
I understand that. It was a good example.
It was the others that were weak.
So we'll move on to the next one.
Yeah, absolutely.
So another really concrete one is deontology.
And a great example there is something like the influence of Kantian ethics in Germany.
So among your accounts was a German philosopher.
And a lot of German legal and moral philosophy has been influenced by this idea
that you have certain duties and rules that you have to follow.
Oh, sorry. Yes, yeah, yeah. That was a good one as well.
Right, yeah, I understand that.
You could have…
It's like, I will die for my principles kind of conversation.
And that's a sort of thing that I'm quite familiar with.
I will always do a certain action because it's my principle.
I understand that.
Okay, so those two were good.
It was the others that weren't so good.
So the next one, what's the next one?
Yeah, totally. Let's do another one that's pretty concrete.
So let's take something like Confucian ethics and a lot of East Asian cultures.
In countries like China or even in Korea,
Confucianism has really shaped a lot of the moral framework
and that's all about roles, family obligations and social harmony.
So it's a very specific kind of ethics that's culturally tied to certain countries.
So there's the third one that's really concrete.
Alright, so talk to me a bit about Confucianism.
So how do they go about deciding what is right and wrong in Confucianism?
Yeah, absolutely.
So Confucianism is really interesting
because it focuses a lot on relationships and social roles.
So what's right or wrong of often determined by your role in society?
For example, how a child should treat their parents
or how a ruler should treat their subjects.
And it's really all about maintaining harmony
and fulfilling your duties within your social roles.
Right, so with Confucianism, what is right for one type of person to do
might not be right for a different person to do.
So it sort of stratorizes society
and each member of society has their own sort of idea of what is correct
and right for them to do.
Is that correct?
Yeah, that's exactly right.
In Confucianism, it's really about these different roles in society
and each role has its own set of responsibilities
and what's considered right for one person may be different for another.
Okay, so is there something in Confucianism that the average western person would find not right?
Where somebody of a certain rank is allowed to do something
but somebody of a different rank, it would turn to be immoral?
Yeah, definitely.
One thing that might seem a little unusual from a western perspective
is the idea that certain authorities or elders have a lot more moral weight
in making decisions and sometimes that can lead to a sense of hierarchy
that might feel a bit rigid if you use some more gallus area views.
So that's one thing that might stand out as an reference.
But is there something in Confucianism where certain people have the right to do things?
Well, in fact, it seems to be immorally good for them to do it
whereas in western societies that would seem to be a morally bad thing
and some of those people get the ability to do that
and other people, that's a moral bad for them.
So within Confucianism there must be some people where a certain activity is a moral bad for some people
and it's a moral good for others and in the western world it would be seen as a moral bad.
Yeah, I see what you're getting at.
So in Confucianism there's definitely an idea that certain roles like elders or leaders
have the moral authority to make decisions for the family or community
and sometimes that might mean they can do things that from a western perspective
might seem like an abuse of power if it were to have someone else.
So yeah, there's definitely a difference.
I could give you an example.
Yeah, absolutely.
So for example, in a Confucian influence society, an elder or a family patriarch
might have the moral authority to make decisions for the whole family
and that might include making choices that others have to follow
even if it seems a little unfair from a western viewpoint where we value individual choice.
So that's kind of one of those examples.
But do they have the ability to…
So there's some within sort of Christian moral frameworks.
There's some things which are regarded to be immoral such as murder, rape, theft.
Would it be that in Confucianism maybe some people of a certain type
although even in Christian society, we say a theft is wrong
but some people are allowed to take stuff and that's sort of often being to be okay.
But in Confucianism is it more explicit?
So is it like to say if you're a certain elder then you have a right to everybody's property
or something like that or you have a right to take whatever wife you want.
I don't know what they could be but is there something along those lines
which would be completely at odds with normal western ideas?
Yeah, I see what you're asking and I would say in Confucianism
it's not so much that there's a direct right to do something like steal
or take something that would be considered immoral
but there is this idea that certain authorities have more say over the household
and it might feel a bit more hierarchical so it's not that they have a moral right to do something
that everyone else sees as wrong.
It's just that the hierarchy might feel a little bit less egalitarian.
So that's kind of the difference.
So would it be true to say maybe that in Confucianism
there isn't this concept of individual rights like there is in the west?
So you think in the west, especially in the states,
maybe you have these rights that there's this concept
and maybe you have the right to privacy, the right to do what you want to an extent
and in Confucianism it's more like well you have to be subservient to the authority
and that's a morally good thing to do.
Would that be a key distinction?
Yeah, that's a great way to put it.
In Confucianism the emphasis is really more on duties and responsibilities
within a social hierarchy rather than individual rights.
So you're right that in a lot of western frameworks we think about personal rights
and individual freedoms and Confucianism is more about fulfilling your role
and respecting the authority above you and that is considered morally good
so that's a big distinction.
Okay, so what's the next ethical framework?
Sure, so another big ethical framework that you might see is Islamic ethics
and that's one that's really based on Sharia law and the teachings of the Quran
and we can see that in a lot of predominantly Muslim countries
where the ethical framework is really about following those religious principles.
So that's another one that's pretty concrete and widely used.
And I suppose that has a lot of some similarities with the idea of Confucianism
but instead of you subserving yourself to the authority which could be the hierarchy
it's more the religious authority and the teachings and going by it that way.
Yeah, exactly, that's a good comparison.
In Islamic ethics you're really looking at religious teachings
and the authority of the Quran and the Hadith and so it's a different kind of authority
but it does have that similarity where you're not really basing on individual rights
you're basing on following a certain set of teachings.
So yeah, that's a great analogy.
So I guess that's the main sort of, yeah, okay.
All right, well that's, is there anything more at a high level
that you could maybe, that we have missed that you think
if we wanted to just have a high level understanding of what is ethics
that you would think would be worth explaining
or have we covered the high level stuff to give us a good flavor of ethics?
Yeah, I think we've covered a lot of the high level stuff.
I mean really ethics is about different ways of thinking about what's right and wrong
and different frameworks of different cultures and people use.
So I think we've got a pretty good flag of it and I think you're in a good spot.
Okay, all right, well thank you for that.
Okay, so guys, yeah, I hope you enjoyed that.
You know, if it's interesting, we can definitely dive into more on these things
with more thorny specific issues.
There's just tons that we could talk about.
But I think it was worth just, I'm going to continue this 101 series
and the next one in the series is going to be Logic
and we will cover that.
And I hope by the time we've got through all of this sort of philosophy 101
we might explore some thorny questions in ethics or philosophy or something as well.
So yeah, I hope you enjoyed that. So goodbye.
For show notes and more go to talking2ai.show